Speak Out!
Lavish-Spending Religious Nonprofits
Wed, 11/28/2007 - 22:48 | Religion
Sen. Charles Grassley, the Senate Finance Committee’s ranking Republican, is investigating six televangelist ministries for possible impropriety:
According to Grassley's office, the Iowa Republican is trying to determine whether or not these ministries are improperly using their tax-exempt status as churches to shield lavish lifestyles. Acting on tips about preachers who ride in Rolls Royces and have purportedly paid $30,000 for a conference table, the top Republican on the Senate Finance Committee said Tuesday he's investigating the finances of six well-known TV ministers. In a statement, Grassley said he was acting on complaints from the public and news coverage of the organizations. "The allegations involve governing boards that aren't independent and allow generous salaries and housing allowances and amenities such as private jets and Rolls Royces," Grassley said. "I don't want to conclude that there's a problem, but I have an obligation to donors and the taxpayers to find out more. People who donated should have their money spent as intended and in adherence with the tax code."Is this investigation a grandstand play or should there be legitimate concern over the lavish lifestyles of some ministries?
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Comments
The world (including the
The world (including the Senator) is looking at the church (mega included). What do they see? If I were not a believer, I think it would be some greedy folks living high on the hog but pretending not to. Classic case of the Pharissees and Sadducees mentality. The transparency the world is looking for is...show me this Jesus. Let your spending match your words and sermons. Let me see openly and plainly how the church is like Jesus. Does the church feed its community food, provide clothing, teach them how to live a wholesome and fulfilling life?
The world is looking for answers, and the mega churches especially, should be the shining example of what Jesus looks like. The church collectively is the blessing and with the open hand should freely give to the community to match the needs therein. I like the ministry of Mother Theresa, she is my hero, because of her spending habits. She owned 3 sharis (dresses), one to wear, one to wash and one for special occasions. What if ministers lived with those values. All of the money she was given was immediately spent on the needs of the poor. Yes, the poor will always be with us and this means we should always be mindful of the needs of the poor. Perhaps the mega churches would be able to accomplish much more in the community with this practice.
My last comment is that I agree the accountability of the church funds is first to God, the congregation who gave it, then the IRS. The Senate is not in that order. However, since this has come to light, hopefully more churches will be encouraged to have wise spending habits and as Anderson Cooper says, "Keep them honest."
It is the duty of the Church
It is the duty of the Church to take care of the Pastor. It is the duty of the Pastor to take care of the Church (the souls therein). Any pastor who cares about his church will know when enough is enough or too much given by the church. Any pastor looking for a payday from the church is one who will be placed on the left and will say "didn't I, didn't I". Do not mistake this for one who has earned this as the fruit of his labor. On ordinary income from his own work (in a non church duty activity) is his and is also taxed as his. However, a CHRISTIAN is not to anything that would cause another to stumble, even if it is not sin. Therefore, even if it is not by means of church and ministry, there needs to be some level of "enough", where the overflow goes to other hands. MuchLoveInEssence is right, it is not the Senator's responsibility. It is that of the Church.
This is just one of the many things amiss in the majority of Mega Churches. This is why the worldly church was the last type mentioned in Revelation before the return of Christ. This is why many will find themselves on the left with the goats instead of the right with the sheep.
Eddy T. Matchette: Poor
Eddy T. Matchette: Poor people were among Jesus as a matter of fact the bible say's poor people will always be among you.
Deuteronomy 15:11 (Whole Chapter)
There will always be some in the land who are poor. That is why I am commanding you to share freely with the poor and with other Israelites in need.
Ruth:2 tells the story how Ruth husband died and she end up gleaning(working) in the filed of Boaz..I think it is important to have available resources for people in need. Also I think it is more important to teach a man how to fish after you have showed them your kindness.
Our job is to share with each others the blessing we have received. There are some Ministers who are selfish but that don’t give us the right to stereotype them all. Senator Grassley has no right to demand any personal financial records from anyone. That’s not lawful and never has been. The IRS has the right to look into the financial records of the citizens but not the Senator. Show me a law that permits such an act…
People/Christians fail to realize Jesus was one man in the flesh. I hear people say things like Jesus had a large following and he talked to ALL of his followers-no he didn’t as a matter of fact Jesus crowd was so large he had to slip away many of days just to regain his composure. That’s why Jesus had twelve disciples-not for show but to assist him with his large following... Remember Jesus was in the flesh.
1. Jesus also had security: John 18:10 (Whole Chapter)
Then Simon Peter, who had a sword, drew it and struck the high priest's servant, cutting off his right ear. (The servant's name was Malchus.)
Peter in so many words was saying back up off Jesus. Even though Jesus didn’t like the violent act Peter committed-Jesus had high security…
Jesus wasn’t that easy to get to -remember the lady that touched his garment with the issue of blood St. Matthew: 9: 20
If Jesus was so easy to get to- she could have just walked up to shake his hands and not have to fight her way through the crowd…Same as ministers today the protocol of the Church is necessary to keep order. The Pastors have their disciples to help manage the flow of the church.
My thing with the some Church’s is this- you tell your congregation to pray for a blessing when in reality the people of the Church are the blessings. This is how blessings flow-it flows form an open hand. God is not dropping blessing from the clouds- it’s the heart of the people that God counts on. That’s a true revelation that Christians need to understand- If the hands are closed so are the blessings. It should never be said “I got mines-so you get yours.
In the Black Community this is too prevalent and this is why the blessings are not flowing to people in need. Stop telling the congregation to pray for the blessing when you know that you are the blessing that person needs. That’s why God commands us to give-it’s a sacred order that God created to fulfill his peoples needs… Again: Deuteronomy 15:11 (Whole Chapter)
There will always be some in the land who are poor. That is why I am commanding you to share freely with the poor and with other Israelites in need.
I admit some Church’s can do a lot more than what they do-but it’s not the Senators responsibilities to monitor the finances.
The senator has a justified
The senator has a justified and valid obligation to make sure that beneficiaries of tax exempt organizations follow the rules set forth by the IRS. He is in no way wrong for making sure that donors monies are spent in ways that are consistent with the original intent.
A fundamental question always seems to be unanswered when this topic is brought up...Is a preacher really a liver of the Word when poverty and famine infect the immediate world around him/her, and he/she drives a $300,000 car? Isn't the definition of Christian...to be Christ-like? I can't recall a story in the Bible where Jesus' followers were before Him and He did not live as they did and share all that He had.
I'm not sure if the
I'm not sure if the investigation by the Senator is the only answer. But surely there needs to be accountability to God first, then to the congregation. This should only be to insure the faithful tithers and seed sowers that their monies are being used for the kingdom of God. Again only if this is a concern to the members. Perhaps the members believe like most that the Pastor should live well, this gives us one more thing to trust God for (prosperity in the financial realm) not only spiritually, physically, emotionally, relationally etc.. which are just as good, trust me, money can't buy any of these!!
P.S. I will end with this, Pastors and children of God use Godly wisdom in spending and don't look like the world with your stuff and things. Allow them the (worldly) to see Christ through the abundance.
Churches are bound by the
Churches are bound by the same tax law as all citizens and should make every effort to keep excellent accounting records. If the IRS wants to audit them, then the churches should make every effort to comply. However, I do not believe it is the responsibility of the Senate to question the church spending. Instead, the Senate should focus on more pressing issues relating to the reasons they were elected to office.
I also think some of the lifestyles are a little lavish. It's hard work running these large mega churchs and staff should be rewarded accordingly, but the lavish lifestyles are a waste of the congregation's money.
The ministers should have everything they need and the things they want, because they make a great sacrifice getting in the pulpit everyday and being at the beck and call of thousands of people.
Maybe these inquiries will force many of the churches to take an honest look at how they are spending money and will prompt them change how they are managing the church's finances.
Personally, I believe it is
Personally, I believe it is to each congregation of their own. However, I have to question are the Ministers brainwashing their congregations by displaying their lavish lifestyles to make them believe they (congregation) can have fancy lifestyles as well, but at their own expense of supporting their pastors lifestyles first? Everyone throughout the Bible were not rich. Therefore, it is only by God's mercy one financially prospers. Most of all, I believe everyone of the congregation are worthy of having a Rolls Royce. We are all special in God's eye. I can't imagine purchasing someone else a Rolls Royce before I purchase myself one as well. I know I'm worthy as well to God.
No, Pastors are not God. Therefore, congregators' pastors are only vessels and they do not have mystical powers. If God wants you with a Rolls Royce, he shall reward but not at the expense of exhausting your savings, mortgages, etc. Will the house of God be open to you if you are foreclosed? Will you be able to sleep inside the sanctuary? Pray and use your funds wisely. There is nothing wrong with the spirit of giving, but know your limits. Also, all gifts do not have to come in the form of money.----God Bless All
The problem is these
The problem is these ministries have a tax-exempt status. There are legitimate expenses that come with running a Ministry however, these folks know themselves and God also knows who they are and those who preach and teach in the name of God but know deep in their hearts that their primary motivation is for personal gain, well ... "what they sow, they shall reap". It doesn't matter how long it seems folks get away with things, there is an impeccable Universal law that ensures that we reap the "true" intentions of our actions, not what our mouths say, but the real motivation and intention behind everything we do. Personally, these "prosperity ministries are just a bit too practiced" for my liking... I don't feel the vibration of sincerity in many of them but as stated earlier.... we all shall reap that which we sow.... cos the Eternal Eye never sleeps and sees where man's physical eyes dim....
This is truly a never ending
This is truly a never ending story. The preachers will forever be persecuted for living a lavish life. But never mind the Donald triumphs' and Bill Gates who so eloquently pay less taxes while everyone else is persecuted. If the congregation was incompetent and needed someone to assist them with their finances, maybe I could see the need for an investigation, but like one of the posters said earlier who among the congregation has a complaint?
Come on guys if we would let Karma do its job then maybe we could find more time to focus on bigger fishes, like the disparities in the legal system, housing system, economy system, etc. Why would anyone want to believe a Congressman, especially a Republican? No matter how many attacks you do on the house of God, that house will not fall unless it's GOD'S WILL...
They should investigate both
They should investigate both the mega and the mini churches. I think the ministers that are "inviting" their members to "contribute", or "give" are bilking the very people that they are supposed to be serving. Didn't Jesus tear up the temple because of the moneylenders and people profiteering off of the members in the temple? I'd like to know when did people stop thinking critically and logically? I'd like to know when did hypnosis become a part of the service? People have been hypnotized into believing that they have to give and give and that it in some way buys them into the Kingdom. They quote from the very passages that they have been told over and over about those heavenly riches and they need to give because God will take care of them when they die. That's fine, in the meantime, as you live on the Earthly plain and sometimes if it walks, talks, and quacks please know it is a duck. Don't get me wrong; there are many churches that are probably good, but there are a lot more pimps in the pulpit than people want to admit to.
I would think the Senate
I would think the Senate Finance commitee would have better things to do. I'd have a few concerns: If there is any impropriety, will it result in a blanket condemnation of ministries (mega or not). Are the expenditures placed into any context? Is this a retaliation of some kind? Will the Senate Finance committee investigate how the war is being financed by borrowing from China, or no bid contracts .... The tax dollars that go to Iraq without question are better spent at home or simply not taken from the citizenry.
I'm torn on this issue.
I'm torn on this issue. Should a person in ministry be denied a decent home and mode of transportation? Of course not. Proverbs 14:4 says "where no oxen are, the crib is clean: but much increase is by the strength of the ox". The ox in this instance being the minister. The Lord provides increase in the congregation based upon the strength of the ox. My problem deals with the excess. I imagine that these televangelists see themselves as CEOs of their congregations. The world's CEOs are rewarded handsomely for their management of the company's assets. These ministers are likening themselves to the world's CEOs. Are we to imitate the world? Is that what Jesus said? He said "love not the world neither the things of the world." Since they have been elevated to this level on the world stage, they are subject to scrutiny. There's one thing that all the world pays attention to and especially the United States-the "almighty dollar". Ask Jim Baker.
The fear is that when you attempt to claim what you think God will provide and it doesn't happen-do you lose your faith? Not everyone is going to be rich in this life. God promised the Believer heavenly riches.
What is there to investigate?
What is there to investigate? No promise, guarantee or commitment is being made by the minister or the church. The language carefully insinuates that God and Jesus made the promise. These ministries are not on the hook to deliver anything other than God's word. The following mission statement is taken from Creflo Dollar's website, the Give-A-Donation link [http://www.creflodollarministries.org/Public/Products/Give-Donation.aspx]:
"Every seed that you sow is used to fulfill our mission of "changing the world" for the gospel of Jesus."
"Pray over your seed and expect an abundant harvest. Know that your seed is being sown into good ground and will be used to teach the Word with simplicity and understanding throughout the world. God bless you for being obedient!"
In a CBS News interview, Creflo Dollar denied that two Rolls-Royces were purchased by the church for him and his wife.
"That's not true. First of all, we don't have two Rolls-Royces," he said. "And secondly, the one Rolls-Royce that was purchased was purchased by the donors, or the members of the church, and it was a surprise to me. I had no idea they were doing it."
Dollar also responded to claims that he tried to raise $1 million from other ministries to give to fellow evangelists Kenneth and Gloria Copeland to celebrate their anniversary, and that his ministry gave over half a million dollars.
"Also not true," Dollar said. "We didn't give Kenneth $500,000, and we didn't take it from our church. We sent letters to different ministers around the country inviting them to share in honoring Kenneth Copeland's 40th anniversary. It's an opportunity for people to do what they believe, and unless we completely got rid of the First Amendment, that's our opportunity to believe that we can sow into a man of God's life, be a blessing to him and celebrate his 40 years of service in the ministry."
The IRS considers these ministries to be non-profit organizations. Iowa Sen. Charles Grassley, the top Republican on the Senate Finance Committee, is asking whether these churches really are non-profits.
Maybe the Senator should try visiting the IRS first.
Yes, all churches both mega
Yes, all churches both mega and small should be investigated. If everything is legitimate there should be no fear. It is interesting that most affluent churches (speaking in Houston) are not in affluent neighborhoods. Why can't the church build up the communities? I have been in churches that have used the 501(3c) status to start businesses. There are churches with McDonalds and ATM's in it.
I believe if one offering is collected per church, it can afford a lot of kids a college education.
I have brought this point up numerous times. I was told it is not the church responsibility to take care of people.
Yes, theses mega churches
Yes, theses mega churches should be investigated. Instead of them using the money for themselves, that money should be put back into the community.They should build housing, set up scholarship fund, and other community outreach programs. There's one mega church here in Los Angeles, Ca. that sends people to their dating service.
The church is to feed the people spiritualy, physically, mentally and other soul saving/faith based services. Since when do the church became a dating service? That shouldn't be. I wanted to visit this well known mega church here in Los Angeles, Ca, and they referred me to their online dating service. I was turned off
with that church. I inquired with that church as to why they referred me to their dating service, when all I wanted was a church home. They never responded, So I went to another church. But My point is that these churches and pastors need to be investigated who are enriching themselves and leaving the people without a
better uplifting condition!
There are some that may
There are some that may require investigation, however I feel there are legitimate mega-ministries that are concerned for the good of God's Will and for society. Ministries that are willing and forth-coming with their financial records should have nothing to worry about.
Sen. Grassley is saying he is
Sen. Grassley is saying he is acting on complaints from the public and news coverage. I would first like to know what segment of the public is complaining? Is it the congregations in these ministries? I personally haven't heard anyone speaking out against their church's misuse of revenue. Generally speaking, it appears these congregations are ok with what these revenues are used for. If the faithful worshipers aren't complaining, then who is really pushing for an investigation and why?
I personally think that most of the $60 billion could be better spent educating our own children, policing our own communities, establishing our own wall street, developing our own trade relations; the possibilities are endless when you have a buying power of $800 billion to a trillion to throw around. But that's not my call. I just wish we would consider matching what we spend on worshiping, on some of the things we march, protest and boycott for.
Yes they should be
Yes they should be investigated.